So What Shall We Talk About?

[Oct31PM]

Hey Mac! So I'm just curious! Since this is a Brave New World (well, perhaps that's a poor choice of phrase), have you given any thought to what are or are not acceptable topics for the Off Topic Discussion section of the board?

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

[Mac Knew]

Hi Alan,

 

You are in the right place this forum is for the OT post. That way people who don't want to get involved in the OT stuff don't have to come in here. I am not sure about the Politics and Religion though. Those two topics can cause a friend to become and enemy. Not everybody can talk about it like adults like you and me can, ya know? LOL.

 

 

Mac

 

Hello God

[Oct31PM]

I thought we did pretty well the other day by I.M., Mac. We disagreed on just about everything but I don't think either of us walked away mad! I guess what makes religion and politics such dangerous topics are that people have SUCH deeply held beliefs about them and the likelihood of actually changing someone's mind about those beliefs via an internet discussion is virtually non-existent.

 

Still, a couple years back, after I'd been discussing the falsehood of a commonly held belief at the time (which has been completely refuted since), a guy e-mailed me offline to ask if what I'd said was true. I assured him it was and advised him to research it for himself so I'd like to believe that maybe the political discussions actually did some good that day.

 

Mostly, the discussions force us to scrutinize our own beliefs a bit more carefully and that can only be a good thing, I think. Of course, there will be arguments about volatile subjects so you have to enter them knowing that you're not going to win. It's just an exchange of ideas and not something worth getting angry over. If you can't take the heat, then truly don't go into that particular kitchen.

 

Anyway, I appreciate that you've set up a separate forum here to discuss non-DDY topics but I'll play discussing those "divisive" topics by ear. It's your list so I'll follow your lead.

 

I suppose discussions of other bands would take place over here as well?

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

[Mac Knew]

Hi Alan,

 

Yes we can discuss other artist in this forum, they are OT so this would be the place. All the OT discussions should be done here.

 

You are right we did have a good friendly debate by AIM the other day. If everybody would debate like that then it would be alot easier to talk about. The sad thing is when people debate politics they get to where they start personal attacks,calling each other names,etc. Oh well.

 

Mac

 

Hello God

[Oct31PM]

Yeah, name calling never serves much of a purpose. If your point is to try to open the other person up to your way of thinking, then insulting them is kind of shooting yourself in the foot!

 

I should be at a candlelight vigil right now to honor the 1000 plus troops that have died but Susie had to use my car to do something else and my knee's been acting up these last couple days so I'm here at home on the computer. Sigh. AND I just realized the premiere of Joey is on now! (Actually, I'm taping it as Susie will want to watch it when she gets back.) I suppose I should actually stop finding excuses and get to work finishing writing my Hallowe'en musical for this year's show for the trick-or-treaters! I've got less than two months to pull this thing together! But having the election two days later is going to be SUCH a distraction this year!

 

Best wishes and Happy Haunting!

 

Alan

[Mac Knew]

Wow, I forgot about your halloween show. You do that every year right? I can't believe that it is almost time again. It seems like last year you showed us some pictures.

 

How does the election get in the way of your halloween show?

 

 

Mac

[Ron]

I think the one area of the board that will be expanded on and organized is the OT forum. I know, it doesn't make sense to have a board to discuss a topic, then spend a lot of time organizing things that are off-topic. There will probably be divisions made in the OT catagory for discussion about other bands, personal items (like something great that happened to you, or sad like the death of a loved one), and a few other topics. I agree with Mac that I think politics and religion are probably not a good idea, at least for now.

[Oct31PM]

Wow, I forgot about your halloween show. You do that every year right? I can't believe that it is almost time again. It seems like last year you showed us some pictures.

 

How does the election get in the way of your halloween show?

 

 

Mac

 

 

(I hope I did this right. This is my first time trying to quote someone else's post in my own.)

 

Yes, it's an annual event. I try to write a new musical show each year and we build a set and perform it in the front yard of my mom's house. (This should be interesting this year because my mom's been staying with us all year so just my brother, who HATES the Hallowe'en shows, has been living at the house where we put it on.) If anyone's interested you can check out the nearly completed website my friend did for last year's show at Marvistavet.com/halloween.

 

The election will only get in the way in that I am much more concerned about the outcome of this year's election than I usually am and I want to do my part to get the word out and to keep up with all the news but it's hard to focus on much of anything else when I'm trying to get the show going. You probably won't hear much from me for the last couple of weeks of October.

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

[Oct31PM]

Mac says: <The Swift Boat ads? Now you know that is just an indepentent group that has no ties to the Bush camp at all. >

 

I'll tell you what, Mac. Despite the fact that at least a couple of people have been identified who were directly involved with both the Bush campaign AND the Swift Boat ads, I'll give Bush the benefit of the doubt here, despite the fact that he steadfastly refused to denounce the ads.

 

Mac says: <What about Dan Rather coming up with forged documents just to try unseat Bush. Now that is low down and lying if I have ever seen it!!!!!!>

 

As far as I know, the jury's still out on this one. It WAS pretty funny watching Robert Novak insist that CBS needed to divulge the source of the documents after he has steadfastly refused to divulge the source that gave him the info that led to his outing of a C.I.A. agent's identity! But, I've gotta say. I'm really sick and tired of the whole back and forth arguments about Bush and Kerry's Vietnam service. Kerry went to Nam, Bush served in the Guard, and frankly, I don't think anyone would care at all what our President did during the Vietnam war (as evidenced by Clinton) if it weren't for the fact that Bush is all too willing to send our troops, both military and National Guard, off to die in a war that was not to America's benefit. In any case, I agree with those who say that what counts is Bush's presidency and what the future likely holds.

 

Mac says: <What really amazes me Alan is how you and people like Kerry are insulting and putting down our Military and are so obsessed with bringing down the President. >

 

In what way, exactly, am I putting down the military? That I disagree with the Bush Administration's policies is no reflection on our armed forces, no matter how desperately the Right tries to paint them as one and the same!

 

Mac says: <It is clear that Kerry is anit Military even if he did serve. He votes against anything to do with bettering out military. People like Gore claimed he wanted every vote counted but wanted to block the Military votes. >

 

That's simply untrue about Kerry's record. As for "blocking the military votes" in the year 2000, the votes in question were votes that were not postmarked by the day of the election. Shall it become a free for all where anyone can send in their votes anytime they want? And do you honestly believe that the Bush campaign, if they believed those votes might have tipped the election over to Gore, would not have done the exact same thing?

 

Mac says: <The men and women are fighting for your freedoms and all you can do is complain about it? >

 

I do not doubt that this is precisely what most of our troops believe they are doing and I have great respect for them because of it. But the honest truth is that Iraq was not a threat to our freedom. Saddam had no means of taking away our freedoms. Bush and Ashcroft DO have ways of taking away our freedoms and they have done just that with their contemptuously named "Patriot Act."

 

Mac says: <You think Saddam is a good man and Bush is a terrorist! WRONG!!!! >

 

I don't for a moment think that Saddam is a good man. I think he's a bad leader who has gained a lot of support from the U.S. in the past, since U.S. policy has traditionally treated anyone who is the enemy of our enemy as our friend. This has made for alliances with some bad people including Saddam Hussein AND Osama Bin Laden. As for Bush being a "terrorist", generally terrorists are not officially representing a specific nation so he wouldn't fit the normal definition. But if you consider someone who has ordered the murder of innocent civillians to meet his political ends to be a terrorist, then I guess the word would fit.

 

Mac says: <You say that he did nothing to prevent the terrorist attack on 9-11 but then turn around and say it is the job of our police to detect all of that? >

 

One of the key reasons we have and FBI and a CIA and all the rest is to try to counter espionage. The more our law enforcement agencies work together and the more we cooperate with the law enforcement agencies around the world, the more effective we can be at combatting terrorism. If there are already terrorist cels working in the U.S. (as was the case with the 9/11 terrorists), then invading a country where they're NOT coming from is not going to be very helpful in stopping them from achieving their goal.

 

Mac says: <Alan if things are so bad and you are so unhappy here why not move? If Saddam is such a great man and the USA has a terrorist for a President then why not move to be with Saddam? Or Bin Laden?>

 

I'm just going to laugh at this one 'cause there's nothing else to do! This is the tired final stand of every person on the right that I've ever argued with. How ridiculous! First, if I don't like Bush, then it must mean that I think Saddam and Bin Laden are great men! Uh, no, it doesn't work that way. It is actually possible to dislike Saddam, Bin Laden, AND Bush although I know that must be tough for you to understand. Second, WHY should I want to leave the greatest country in the world because we have one terrible president? If Kerry gets elected, are YOU planning to leave America? Why didn't you leave when Clinton was President if you disliked him? It's the same absolutely ridiculous argument. What makes this nation great is that we have the chance to stand up and DO something about our government when we don't like the way it's going! We have free elections! This is why we have people volunteering to fight for America! Because that freedom of speech and freedom of dissent and freedom to vote for the person you believe will best lead America is WORTH defending! It's just sad when their noble service is misused.

 

Mac says: <Should John Kerry be elected(yeah right) then Ole Saddam will be released and allowed to return to power to torture Iraqis and fund more Terroist attacks on the U.S.>

 

And what fever dream are you basing this on? Wow! You should really become Cheney's speech writer! This stuff would be right up his alley!

 

Mac says: <Should John Kerry be elected(yeah right) we will be without a leader and under the the United Nations. Who wants a President that has to have a permission slip to defend the country? >

 

A president who actually recognizes that we're not the ONLY nation in the world would be nice. Yes, it's actually possible for some countries to disagree with us and NOT be our enemies. And, in order to be DEFENDING our country, someone has to actually be threatening us, a quality that was noticeably missing with Iraq.

 

Mac says: <Who wants a President that will arm our military with Spit Balls? >

 

Now you're going to quote Zel Miller? Come on, he's a disgrace to BOTH parties!

 

Mac says: <All he says is Bush is bad,Bush is bad, Bush is bad, Bush is bad. Then he vows not to use the negative dirty politics of yesterday and in the very next breath calls the President unfit? >

 

Actually, Kerry's problem seems to be that he BELIEVED Bush when Bush condemned negative campaigning and so he took the high road for months. It only finally seems to be getting through to him that practically every ad Bush runs is a "bash Kerry" ad and that every speech he or Cheney give are FULL of negative campaigning! Let's hope he hasn't figured out too late that he's going to have to start playing THEIR game!

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

[Mac Knew]

Alan said: Second, WHY should I want to leave the greatest country in the world because we have one terrible president? If Kerry gets elected, are YOU planning to leave America? Why didn't you leave when Clinton was President if you disliked him?

 

Well you make it sound like things are just awful here and this country is not fit to live in anymore.

 

If Kerry was elected would I leave? No I would not, I would respect him as my President. Have you ever heard these people when their candidate loses an election they say things like that man won't be my President. I am not one of those people. Hey,I live in America,if he is elected and sworn in he is my President if I voted for him or not. It would be very un American of me to bash everything he tries to do just because he is not in the party I agree more with or because I did not vote for him. I think it is sad that people from either party just can't show the same respect. I don't hate Kerry, I don't dislike him. I just can't stand his politics and don't think he is a leader. I am not hater though!!!!

 

No I did not care for Clinton all that much. But when he went to the White House I was used to him LOL! He was from my state and it was the first time one of our own became President of the United States. When he won I was disappointed that my man lost, but was happy for Clinton. Does that make any sense? The same thing applied four years later, was disappointed but happy for Bill. But I gave him my respect, he was no longer my Governor but my President.

 

Beleive it or not Alan in 1993 Bill Clinton landed at an airport not far from where I lived at the time and I went out there and saw him. I even shook hands with him.

 

I still am one of the few that don't make Monica an issue. On another board there were a bunch of women going crazy about how they can't believe Hillary stayed with Bill, they said if she ran for President they would not vote for her just because she stayed with Bill. These women claim to be Christians? I do believe that God forgives and Bill who believes in God asked God for forgivness of Adultry. From where I study the bible I believe God suggest the couples try to work out the problem and stay together. Had Hillary just given up and walked out on Bill she would have proven herself as a weak person. But sticking with him she proves to be strong and if they can make it through something like that, then they can make it through anything. It just depends on how much she loves him.

 

So no Alan, should Kerry be elected I will not leave the U.S. I will respect him as my President. Now only if the left would show that kind of respect and the right too for that matter, this would be a happier place. Hopefully if he is elected he will be tough on terror but so far it don't look like he would be.

 

 

Mac